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help PATs system...

R

randylang

Member
back ground on the car.

i had a complete running 96 cobra 4v and was haveing a blast with the car while i built my 03 cobra set up. the car is wired front to back with a 99 gt harness the only thing dif in the harness is where i reversed the coil wires. pulled the 96 motor and sold then swapped in my cobra set up...it is all buttoned up and built a start tune file insureing that i turned the PATS off...but for some reason the theft light is flashing really fast and im not getting coil or injector power. Do any of you guys got this system down who may be able to shed some light on this? this should have been a plug and play motor swap but thats a no go.

thanks for any help, randy
 
ponyboy89lx

ponyboy89lx

Well-Known Member
Staff member
So you were running a 96 cobra motor with a 99 harness then swaped the motor to a 03 cobra engine. PATS is turned off through the EEC. There is a guy on here ( Kurt ) he is a very smart fellow, I bet he can help you out. But we need to get a little clearer discription of the car and the setup. We all try are best to help each other out. I am waiting on parts to fire mine up (hopefully lol) but i too had to deal with the PATS. My PATS light still flashes but i have yet to check coil or injector power, i am waiting on plug wires. Let me ask some questions to get the setup on your car clearer. Someone will chime in here in a few we just got to get the ball rollin.

What year is the car?

What EEC are you running?

Does the fuel pump prime?
 
R

randylang

Member
ok yes here we go..

the car is a 92 coupe

eec is 99gt as well as all the wiring throught out the whole car (all from a 99gt and the same car)

i do get fuel up to the rails i noid lighted both injector and coils (nothing)

security light in my cluster is blinking like crazy with the key on..i took the car to the dealership today had them make me 2 new keys. tomorrow going to rebuild a new tune file and try to start it....wish me luck
 
4whldisc

4whldisc

Active Member
do you have 2 keys?

you are aware that the PATS system is in the instrument cluster. if the pats light is illuminated, system needs to be scanned for codes. you cant figure this one out by yourself. i have had computor chips and program failures that are unexplainable. if you have reprogrammed the PCM, you will want to do a scan to see what codes you get, it may me something as simple as a parameter reset.

the reason i say to scan the car for codes is that you also need to see if the car comes up as a 99 mustang gt, i had one that had a program altered to accomodate a supercharger and when i scanned the car it came up as a 97 ranger, further diagnsosis revealed the scanner would not recognise the instrument cluster, in fact the cluster failed the network test, so basically the PATS was activated with the light flashing.

if you have to reprogram the PATS system, you will need 2 pats keys.

if you have no power at the injectors or coils,( i do get fuel up to the rails i noid lighted both injector and coils (nothing ???) the 361 circuit is dead and has probably blown a fuse.

there should be power at the 361 circuit, the PCM supplies a ground signal to fire off the injectors and ignition coils.

strange that the fuel pump operates......i dont have a diagram here, but i thought the fuel pump driver was powered by the PCM on the 99 model, maybe not.

good luck.
 
ponyboy89lx

ponyboy89lx

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Svt Fox said:
Your chip was tested and worked in my car before it was sent out. :)

You shouldn't have any issues related to the chip.
Click to expand...
Yeah Kurt said he was gonna test it. Im think there are different types of PATS system that required one key and other (later models) required two keys to be reprogrammed
 
4whldisc

4whldisc

Active Member
PATS is not a bad thing, in fact it is a deterrent. There are concerns about PATS for loads of reasons when modifying these cars or doing a modular engine swap.



PATS does not affect the operation of the engine, it just prevents it from being utilized without the correct key.



For those guys using the stock fox steering columns you can always remove the transceiver key coil from the SN 95 steering column and locate it in a remote position under the dash if you like, however there is a proximity issue with the key to the coil/transceiver, which is easily overcome.



Of course there are programmers out there that can eliminate PATS altogether, but if your PCM dumps and you are miles away from home, this could cause an issue.



I think PATS is a pretty good system, i have spoken to many people in the past and tried to bypass the PATS system with no luck, but that’s ok, it proves that it works.



I know some people don’t want three keys to operate their cars, one for the FOX doors, one for the SN95 ignition switch, and one for the trunk.



when i did my first engine & dash swap in my 1980 Fairmont, i had loads of issues to overcome. I had to fit fuel injection to the car, fit a 5.o add a 93 dashboard, add a parking brake in the center console , had to modify/make the loom, add a 2000 Mustang frt suspension etc, it all came out ok.



Now i am getting ready doing the 4.6 swap, pats is the last thing on my mind, i actually want PATS. Then again i have other issues to overcome, trying to get the dash cut without destroying it, repairing the wiring loom, trying to get the wiring to fit, drilling more holes in the car, repairing the a/c etc.



I suppose what it boils down to is that everyone has issues about something, but truthfully PATS is passive, and doesn’t cause troubles so long as you have the key/s.



There are no moving parts to wear-out, usually the only issue arrives when the keys are not present or the transceiver ring breaks, however you will need an IDS tester from Ford to diagnose it if it ever goes wrong.



Unfortunately, i have no knowledge as how to delete it altogether, but i can diagnose & repair them if i have a code to work with.



As stated previous, i have tried various ways to bypass it, i know there are transceivers out there that will eliminate the key for the system, but i personally have not “deleted PATS from the PCM, but i feel it would be something nice to know how to do, i suppose it can be done with a high-end aftermarket programmer???
 
Speedtospare

Speedtospare

Well-Known Member
4whldisc said:
PATS is not a bad thing, in fact it is a deterrent. There are concerns about PATS for loads of reasons when modifying these cars or doing a modular engine swap.



PATS does not affect the operation of the engine, it just prevents it from being utilized without the correct key.

Or for any reason it think its being stolen, it disables your car.



For those guys using the stock fox steering columns you can always remove the transceiver key coil from the SN 95 steering column and locate it in a remote position under the dash if you like, however there is a proximity issue with the key to the coil/transceiver, which is easily overcome.


Of course there are programmers out there that can eliminate PATS altogether, but if your PCM dumps and you are miles away from home, this could cause an issue.

PATS cannot be eliminated. It however be tuned off in the computer.


I think PATS is a pretty good system, i have spoken to many people in the past and tried to bypass the PATS system with no luck, but that’s ok, it proves that it works.

It does whats it was intended to do


I know some people don’t want three keys to operate their cars, one for the FOX doors, one for the SN95 ignition switch, and one for the trunk.
Why not move the locks over form the other car? or use the key column from the original car?


when i did my first engine & dash swap in my 1980 Fairmont, i had loads of issues to overcome. I had to fit fuel injection to the car, fit a 5.o add a 93 dashboard, add a parking brake in the center console , had to modify/make the loom, add a 2000 Mustang frt suspension etc, it all came out ok.



Now i am getting ready doing the 4.6 swap, pats is the last thing on my mind, i actually want PATS. Then again i have other issues to overcome, trying to get the dash cut without destroying it, repairing the wiring loom, trying to get the wiring to fit, drilling more holes in the car, repairing the a/c etc.



I suppose what it boils down to is that everyone has issues about something, but truthfully PATS is passive, and doesn’t cause troubles so long as you have the key/s.




There are no moving parts to wear-out, usually the only issue arrives when the keys are not present or the transceiver ring breaks, however you will need an IDS tester from Ford to diagnose it if it ever goes wrong.

What about pats having issues with the missing dash or radio in the newer cars?


Unfortunately, i have no knowledge as how to delete it altogether, but i can diagnose & repair them if i have a code to work with.

Cannot be removed but it car be turned off. Just a 1 or a 0 in the PCM programming, just like turning off the rear 02's.


As stated previous, i have tried various ways to bypass it, i know there are transceivers out there that will eliminate the key for the system, but i personally have not “deleted PATS from the PCM, but i feel it would be something nice to know how to do, i suppose it can be done with a high-end aftermarket programmer???
Click to expand...


IMO, there are so many other things in these cars computer related that can be affect by these swaps. Missing rear 02 sensors, cars that swap to return fuel systems, bigger injectors, modifying wiring harness, no clusters, different mismatching parts, computers from auto car with a stick, Knock sensor removal, etc etc etc.

Why have the headache of trying to get everything to work. You pretty much have to get the car tuned unless your doing a complete swap from one car to another with no mods. Easier just to turn it off. I don't see to many people cars being hot wired these days, most are just put on a flatbed and taken away.
 
4whldisc

4whldisc

Active Member
perhaps its a preference thing, i got it, i like it and will use it, however it would be nice to know how to disable it. i dont do any specialised programming of the PCM, then again, thats not a bad thing either.
 
Speedtospare

Speedtospare

Well-Known Member
4whldisc said:
perhaps its a preference thing, i got it, i like it and will use it, however it would be nice to know how to disable it. i don't do any specialized programming of the PCM, then again, thats not a bad thing either.
Click to expand...


If you plan on doing any modifications to the car at all other then mufflers or an air filter I would suggest getting it tuned. Money well spent. I gained over 25 RWHP above just from a tune, catted x-pipe and and a throttlebody I was only using 91 octane. Oh, rear 02's were deleted and injectors were 39 lb hr from a 04 cobra. Above and beyond the HP the car drives better than stock and the throttle response is a million times better
 
keeton

keeton

Active Member
Speedtospare said:
If you plan on doing any modifications to the car at all other then mufflers or an air filter I would suggest getting it tuned. Money well spent. I gained over 25 RWHP above just from a tune, catted x-pipe and and a throttlebody I was only using 91 octane. Oh, rear 02's were deleted and injectors were 39 lb hr from a 04 cobra. Above and beyond the HP the car drives better than stock and the throttle response is a million times better
Click to expand...

Yeah...and can't you have a tune made that disables the PATS all in one go? That's what I have been told/found in research.
 
ponyboy89lx

ponyboy89lx

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I plan on running Delta Force Special Forces software as soon as i can get the cash together for it LOL.
 
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